Tussen Vriendinne: Skoonheid Teen Enige en Elke Prys?

Kletspraatjies Met Elsa en Daniela.

Kapenaar Daniela Massenz en ek loop ‘n lang pad saam as skoonheidsredakteurs vir verskeie tydskrifte. Tussen ons het ons sowat 40 jaar ervaring van die bedryf. Skoonheid, gekombineer met gesonde verstand en ‘n goeie skoot ydelheid, is ons passie. Ons wissel gereeld idees en standpunte en wil dit hier met julle deel.

Daniela is veeltallig (Italiaans, Engels en ‘n lekseltjie Afrikaans) en ons voer ons dialoog in Engels en Afrikaans; sodoende praat elkeen in haar “eie stem” en ons hoop julle geniet dit.

PLUS: Praat saam en jy kan ‘n lekker prys wen – sien heel onder!


Hoe ver sal jy gaan om jonk en mooi te bly? En wanneer is te ver bloot te ver?

I’ve had so much plastic surgery, when I die they will donate my body to Tupperware – Joan Rivers

Daniela, met die afsterwe van Joan Rivers en die gepaardgaande spekulasie dat die talle kosmetiese operasies wat sy in haar leeftyd gehad het, dalk daartoe kon bygedra het dat haar liggaam nie die skok van, ironies genoeg, ‘n noodsaaklike operasie aan haar stembande kon hanteer nie, moet ‘n mens wonder: Hoe ver sal jy gaan om jonk en mooi te bly? En wanneer is te ver bloot te ver?


Joan Rivers


Ek het onlangs in FORBES Woman Africa Magazine geskryf dat daar soveel opsies is wat ‘n mens eers kan uitput voordat jy “onder die mes” hoef te gaan, indien ooit. Die keuses in die stryd teen veroudering neem by die dag toe, dis verbysterend.

Sagte opsies

Dis Botox, vullers, chemiese afskilfering (peels), mikrodermabrasie, mesoterapie, lasers, lig-, klank-, en radio-frekwensiebehandelings, die lys is eindeloos.

En selfs met hierdie sogenaamde “sagte opsies” kan dinge lelik skeef loop. Kyk maar net na dié video van Hollywood se sterre wat probleme daarmee opgetel of te ver gegaan het:

Voorlaas week het ‘n kosmetiese dokter vir my gesê hy stel binnekort die sogenaamde Thread Facelift prosedure in SA bekend. Dis glo ‘n nuwe weergawe van die prosedure wat rondom 2003 uit Rusland hier aangewaai gekom het en nie baie suksesvol was nie. Kyk daarna by

Ek gril my dood! Verbeel jou, jou gesig hang letterlik aan ‘n draadjie!

Maar tog: dis heeltemal natuurlik om jeugdig te wil lyk.

Lesley Jane Seymour (57), redakteur van More Magazine in Amerika (die tydskrif is gemik op vroue bo 40) stel dit so: “We’re happy with the emotional benefits of our life stage but less happy with looking our chronological age.”

Ek hou van haar opinie in haar redakteursbrief hier waarin sy vertel van ‘n vriendin wat haar pragtige grys hare moes kleur om ‘n werk te kry: http://www.more.com/aging

Nietemin, dit is nogal lekker om te sien dat daar deesdae ‘n merkbare tendens is om grasie in ouderdom te erken – iemand soos Sophia Loren (80 hierdie week!) word as ‘n immergroen skoonheid gereken, en Raquel Welch (74) lyk nog steeds soos ‘n sexy voorbladvrou. En dan is daar Jane Fonda (76) – een van L’Oréal se gesigte.

Nie dat sy enigsins oud is nie, maar dis ‘n teken van die tye dat Estée Lauder onlangs die pragtige Stephanie Seymour (46) as hul “nuwe gesig” bekend gestel het. Die gesig van middeljare is beslis aan die verander.


Stephanie Seymour
Stephanie Seymour


Plastiese chirurgie

Nietemin, laat ons krediet gee waar dit hoort – ‘n talentvolle snydokter kán dekades wegsny: Kyk hoe goed lyk Goldie Hawn (69) ná ‘n suksesvolle ontrimpelingsoperasie:



Hier is nog van Joan se sêgoed wat my laat giggel:

I wish I had an identical twin so that I could know what I would have looked like without plastic surgery – Joan Rivers

Looking 50 is great – if you’re 60 – Joan Rivers

Wat doen JY om grasievol oud te word en die proses te bestuur sodat jy langer jeugdig kan lyk? Wat is jy bereid om te doen en waar trek jy die streep?



Oh Elsa, you know just how to get me riding my hobbyhorse.

I’ve always believed I would like to age gracefully, looking the best I can look through healthy living (stop laughing!) and looking after my skin. It really does work; we are both prime examples. Like you, I have been blessed with good skin genes, and I know that the good skin care I have used, antioxidant-rich creams and sun protection, since my twenties have left me with pretty good skin for my age. I have resisted the lure of free fillers and Botox, except once, because I felt I had to experience what Botox is in the line of duty. The things I do…

Confession time

There is so much that can be done non-surgically to keep skin healthy and good-looking, and I have experienced a few: hair-removal laser (brilliant on my underarms, an ongoing battle with my chin whiskers thanks to those pesky hormones), as well as pulsed dye laser to remove some Campbell de Morgan spots (red ‘moles’ common among people of Mediterranean descent). I’ve tried one session of Syneron Matrix RF, which uses Fractional Bi-Polar Radio Frequency Technology to heat the dermis and stimulate collagen remodeling, to feel the effect. I’ve also had a course of Bio-Therapeutic facials, using light therapy and antioxidant serums, etc., which has excellent results.

I would definitely consider non-ablative Fraxel (fractional laser) for rejuvenating the skin’s collagen and elastin, and other ‘non-invasive’ treatments that don’t cause much downtime and which don’t have potentially serious consequences, but not quite yet (although they say it’s better to have the intervention earlier, on more youthful skin).

I’m not saying ‘never!’ to surgery, but it would take a lot to get me under the knife – especially under general anaesthetic – or have a drastic ablative laser treatment with raw, oozing skin. I am simply not that fussed about ageing. And watching an episode of Botched Up Bodies on DSTV makes it even less likely.

However, as I sidle up to the big Five-Oh! and my eyelids are slowly succumbing to the forces of gravity (the traitors), I do find myself wondering if a little blepharoplasty might not be an option in the next few years.

Big confession time: The thing for which I might consider surgery or at least liposuction, if anyone could guarantee they could give me one, is a horizontal shelf – you know, the bit under the jaw that should be nice and taut and sculpted. I was born with a chin with a built-in hammock underneath; it’s a genetic trait affecting quite a few in my family. However, I’ve heard so many differing opinions from plastic surgeons I’ve cornered at congresses about the right way to get it – including thread lifts – that I would rather live with my hammock than have an even worse fate.

Fill’er up?

The one thing I don’t think I will be doing in a hurry is have fillers. This obsession with volume to give the face youthful contours is worrying. To me, everyone ends up looking the same. They start off with a good result as there is a subtle plumping, but within a year or two, their faces have morphed into clones, and is it me or is there a touch of bergie in them-there lips and cheeks?

My theory is that you get used to the face and think (or your doctor does) that you need a bit more. I would advise every person doing it to take a before pic – of when you were still a filler ‘virgin’ – with you each time you go for your next top-up, so you have a reality check before you plump. And while it’s good to use your own fat to plump up some areas because it lasts, remember that if you gain weight, so do they.

Perhaps the more conservative approach would be best: use a filler like Restylane first as it will dissipate after a year (and there is apparently an antidote if they seriously mess things up), before you go for the more permanent puff from fat.

My advice: find a doctor who gives good, natural-looking results – see whose face you like the look of, and be extremely conservative. Less is absolutely more here.

Good examples of judicious use of Botox and possibly a wee bit of filler (I still think you can see a Botoxed forehead. It looks unnaturally still and there’s a tell-tale halo.)

Oh dear me…

While Embeth Davidtz and even Nicole Kidman are among the better examples (note the visible filler in Embeth’s lips), their faces have lost individuality, and they look a bit scary. Hunter Tylo, Melanie Griffith and Meg Ryan make me just want to weep.

I understand the enormous pressures of being a Hollywood star, where youth is everything, and it must be hard for beautiful women to adjust to the effects of ageing on their faces, but these women are unrecognisable, badly drawn caricatures of themselves, and you cannot tell me that their faces are the better for all their interventions.

I’m not even going to go into the women who want it to be known that they have had surgery. Seriously, a woman I met told me she was proud of her fake boob job (round, solid, unnaturally high) and flaunted them so everyone could see how unrealistic they looked – the faker looking the better, as far as she was concerned.

Most worrying for me is that I think that interventions can become addictive. I was beauty editor at FairLady when cosmetic Botox and fillers came in, and I was invited to spend several afternoons with a doctor and watch a series of women come in to have this frozen and that plumped up. It was done conservatively and the results were good, but a few weeks on, I noticed the same women return to have more, to deal with this little niggle, or ‘I don’t like this line on my neck’. It’s a slippery slope, and people can start hyperfocusing on the littlest things that shouldn’t be a concern.

Time to confess, Elsa. What have you done, and what would you be prepared to do?


Helaas Daniela, ‘n intervensie-maagd is ek lank nie meer nie…

Net voor ek alles uitlap, wil ek vir Andrea Robinson, skrywer van Toss The Gloss: Beauty Tips, Tricks & Truths for Women 50+ ‘n spreekbeurt gee:

“We’ve changed, and perhaps more important, so has the technology. The types of treatments available now didn’t exist twenty years ago. They’re less invasive, less uncomfortable, and more effective than ever. And while I will never be a proponent of face-swapping plastic surgery and over-the-top injections (sorry Joan, you’ve gone too far) I’m totally on board with taking advantage of cosmetic breakthroughs to spring out of the physical rut of age-related doldrums – with one caveat: Be conservative.”

Waarop ek net kan sê: Ja en Amen, suster. (Andrea is my nuwe moet-lees ghoeroe oor mooi middeljare.)

Ek is, soos jy, bevoorreg om ‘n ma te hê wat op 80 nog steeds lyk asof sy straks 60 kan wees, en ek is elke dag dankbaar vir die goeie gene wat sy so ruimskoots na my kant toe laat kom het.

My Ma Nellie


Juis daarom sal ek taamlik ver gaan om so lank moontlik die meeste van daardie gene te maak en so jeugdig moontlik te lyk. Ek wil bowenal goed lyk vir my ouderdom, sodat mense verras is (op ‘n goeie manier!) as hulle my ouderdom hoor.

Ek is maar ‘n ydeltuit! As ‘n produk of prosedure vir my belowend klink, is daar min dinge wat ek nie sal probeer nie. Alles ter wille van die wetenskap en my werk natuurlik!

Die naald, die lem of die laser?

Oor die afgelope tien jaar het ek Botox gehad vir fronslyne, kraaispore, maaskaas-ken en hasie-lyne by die bopunt van my neus (een of twee keer per jaar); Restylane vullers onderskeidelik (en nie gelyktydig nie) in marionet-lyne, my lippe, my wangbene en my slape (dit het twee jaar gehou); laser-behandelings en IPL vir rooi aartjies langs my neus en op my wange (dis wat sinus aan ‘n mens doen!); Fraxel laser om my nek jonger te laat lyk en kollageenvorming te stimuleer; gereelde ligte chemiese afskilferings; permanente laser- haarverwydering op my bene, bikini-lyn en onderarms (die beste ding wat ek ooit gedoen het). Onlangs het ek vir die eerste keer Botox in my nek gehad om die platismale spiere te ontspan – die effek van hierdie sg Nefertiti Lift was fantasties.

Drie jaar gelede het ek ook ‘n Ulthera-behandeling (ultraklank tegnologie) gehad vir daardie dreigende dubbelken (ek hou van jou hangmat-onder-die-ken beskrywing!) en ‘n kakebeenlyn wat net nie meer so suiwer gelyk het nie. Toe ek hoor dis wat Madonna doen, het ek nie op my laat wag toe die uitnoding op my tafel land nie. Dit het regtig goed gewerk, maar dis nou drie jaar later…

Ek laat ook gereeld gedurende my gesigbehandelings (facials) die vier lastige lang haartjies in my nek en op my ken met elektrolise verwyder. Niemand waarsku ‘n mens mos oor dié harige hormonale newe-effekte van die middeljare nie… maar dis ‘n gesprek vir ‘n ander dag.

Gepraat van ‘n naalde-maagd (uhmm, ek gaan nie “naaldsteek” met hierdie term nie!) : Gaan kyk gou hoe vermaaklik ons kollega Candice-Lee Kannemeyr van In My Bag in haar blog haar eerste Botox- en vuller ervaring op video beskryf.

Ek hou van jou voorstel dat ‘n mens ‘n “Before & After” foto van jouself neem wanneer jy die pad van Botox en vullers inslaan. Dan kan jy met nugter, objektiewe (hopelik) oë daarna kyk (of ‘n ware vriendin kan brutaal eerlik met jou wees) en sien of jou gesig besig is om soos ‘n eekhoring s’n op te blaas.

Ek het onlangs ‘n artikel vir Longevity Magazine geskryf oor kosmetiese chirurgie en wanneer die skalpel die enigste uitweg is. Deesdae word ‘n blefaroplastie om hang-ooglede te lig en sakke onder die oë weg te sny, sommer binne ‘n japtrap in die plastiese chirurg se kamers gedoen. Wanneer ‘n mens te veel vel het, en veerkragtigheid verlore is, begin dinge hang en sak – en dan is die mes die finale, enigste opsie. Vir nou.

Hmmm, dalk tyd om die spaarvarkie te begin voer. ‘n Mens weet nooit.

NS: Ek was net gister by ‘n BAIE opwindende bekendstelling van EMERVEL, ‘n nuwe vuller, pas in Suid-Afrika. Ek het my vergaap aan wat die dokters kon reg toor aan die twee vrywilligers op wie hulle demonstrasies gedoen het. En ek het ‘n uitnodiging om dit self te gaan beproef. Ahem…




Wat sê ons lesers? Lewer gerus op die blad (sien onder) kommentaar oor óf en wáár julle die streep trek oor verjongingsprosedures. Ons wil graag weet wat julle dink!

OM TE WEN: BEANTWOORD die vraag hierby en stuur die korrekte antwoord aan  elsa@mooipraatjies.com

VRAAG: Van watter land in Europa kom die Juliette Armand professionele kosmetiekproduk- en behandelingsreeks?


'n Juliette Armand gesigbehandeling is terapie vir jou vel se behoeftes en buie

‘n Juliette Armand gesigbehandeling is terapie vir jou vel se behoeftes en buie

Die eerste 3 korrekte antwoorde binne die volgende week wen elk ‘n Juliette Armand gesigbehandeling (facial) wat presies vir jou vel se behoeftes en buie geformuleer en saamgestel word.

Die behandeling sal by ‘n spa naby jou beskikbaar wees, ongelukkig nog net in Johannesburg, Durban en Kaapstad, maar hierdie lieflike Griekse produkreeks is vinnig besig om uit te brei na ‘n hele aantal spa’s landwyd, dus sal dit spoedig wyer aangebied kan word.

** Wenners sal op Mooipraatjies aangekondig word en ‘n geskenkbewys per e-pos ontvang. Wenners moet self hul afsprake en vervoer om hul prys te benut, organiseer.


3 Replies to “Tussen Vriendinne: Skoonheid Teen Enige en Elke Prys?”

  1. Baie interessante en leersame gesprek! Myns insiens gaan skoonheid nie net oor hoe jy lyk nie, maar ook oor hoe jy voel, en as ek ‘n prosedure kan volg om my beter te laat lyk, sal dit beslis ook ‘n vernuwende en positiewe uitwerking op hoe ek voel hê. Bring die Botox! 😉

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